How the quote-post debate demonstrates that many Mastodon users know nothing about the Fediverse

Tue, 12 Nov 2024 17:36:10 -0600

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

The Fediverse has quote-posts right now, it can quote-post Mastodon toots with no problems, and no Mastodon switch will change that; CW: long (over 4,500 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse beyond Mastodon meta, quote-post meta

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Tue, 12 Nov 2024 17:53:14 -0600

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

By the way, there's exactly one way of being safe from being quote-posted in the Fediverse:

Move to Hubzilla or (streams). Keep all optional communications protocols off, including ActivityPub. Disallow quoting and mirroring of your posts entirely in your channel role (on Hubzilla) or keep your channel type on Limited ((streams)). Make sure that none of your contact roles (Hubzilla) or permission roles ((streams)) allows it. Try to live with only contacts on Hubzilla and (streams); none of them would ever use quote-posts for nefarious reasons, but better safe than sorry. Always post to a restricted audience so that sharing your posts isn't possible anyway. And never comment on public posts so that sharing your comments isn't possible either.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate

Tue, 12 Nov 2024 18:01:49 -0600

Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

pepecyb@hub.hubzilla.hu

😂👍

Tue, 12 Nov 2024 22:43:24 -0600

Tejan Ausland

tejan@hubzilla.monster

Basically, Mastodon is doing what politicians do. The reality is that no one can prevent someone from quoting you. Heck, they could just take a screenshot of your post and post that on X if they wanted. But since some people want the impossible done, they are promised something that looks like it solves the problem, but doesn't actually solve the problem. Because the problem can't be solved. People can and always will be able to quote you.

Wed, 13 Nov 2024 02:27:49 -0600

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Tejan Ausland Yes, but many on Mastodon don't understand this.

For them, the Mastodon devs are the creators and keepers of the Fediverse itself as well as "the good guys" who have made the single most awesome piece of server software in decades. If the Mastodon devs even only imply that an opt-out or opt-in switch for quote-posts will bring absolute safety from being quote-posted, they take it at face value.

So when they opt out of being quote-posted, and someone from outside of Mastodon quote-posts them anyway, they won't blame it on the Mastodon devs having promised them something impossible. Never would the Mastodon devs do that.

Rather, the devs behind whatever that someone is using are the bad guys. They're rogues, they're evil hackers who have introduced quote-posts just to be able to spite and harass Mastodon users. Why else would something introduce quote-posts after all?

The one thing that'll protect wherever that someone is from their wrath is that most of them won't be able to figure out what that someone is using. Just because Mastodon users can look up a post at its source, doesn't mean they know they can, much less they actually do.

So they may try to get allegedly rogue instances Fediblocked just because these instances are non-Mastodon instances doing what they regularly do. They may succeed because at least some blocklist maintainers don't have a clue about the Fediverse outside Mastodon, its capabilities and its culture either. But it's unlikely that they'll pinpoint this culprit having used Sharkey, have all of Sharkey Fediblocked for being able to "circumvent" Mastodon's quote-post opt-out/opt-in, then pinpoint that the next quote-poster is using Akkoma and have all of Akkoma Fediblocked and so forth.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #Blocklist #Blocklists #BlocklistMeta #FediblockMeta

Wed, 13 Nov 2024 02:39:44 -0600

Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

pepecyb@hub.hubzilla.hu

I still haven't really realised what the problem with quote postings is.

If I say something publicly, then I shouldn't care if others pick up on what I said and discuss it in another thread. They can do that ‘bis die Schwarte kracht’. If I don't want something like that, I'm not allowed to post publicly.

Wed, 13 Nov 2024 03:26:44 -0600

Hamiller Hubzilla

hamiller@hub.hubzilla.hu

@Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

On Twitter/X, it was often used to start a separate thread with the quote, mocking the original author.

Eugen wanted to prevent this with Mastodon and had not implemented it. But a large amount of X refugees now demand it.

Wed, 13 Nov 2024 03:32:58 -0600

Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

pepecyb@hub.hubzilla.hu

@Hamiller Hubzilla If I appear in public, then I have to live with such phenomena. The question is always: do I have to look at what others say about me?

Wed, 13 Nov 2024 06:07:30 -0600

Frank Casa

frank@frank.casa

@Tejan Ausland

Basically, Mastodon is doing what politicians do.

True, although I think it is worse than that. The political move in this case is to placate the ignorant masses by telling them what they want to hear, implementing a solution that looks good, but doesn't actually do anything.

@Jupiter Rowland

Yes, but many on Mastodon don't understand this.

That's the whole point. They don't understand it, and when you try to explain to them the realities of life, the more emotional ones freak out, start calling you names, making false accusations, cancelling you, etc.

It's just easier to tell the ignorant people what they want to hear than to deal with their rumblings.

Wed, 13 Nov 2024 06:30:15 -0600

Tejan Ausland

tejan@hubzilla.monster

@Frank Casa That doesn't make it right though.

Wed, 13 Nov 2024 06:40:28 -0600

Lasse Gismo - 🇮🇱🇺🇦🇸🇩

LasseGismo@climatejustice.social

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Wed, 13 Nov 2024 07:22:34 -0600

Scott M. Stolz

scott@hubzilla.monster

@Lasse Gismo - 🇮🇱🇺🇦🇸🇩

A stupid question - what's the prob with quoted posts?

Some people abuse them. They quote someone and then mock them for what they said.

Since it is a quote, the original author can no longer edit it and they can't delete it either.

This mocking is probably the biggest issue, but there are other groups that don't like it too. For example, people can no longer say something and deny saying it later since it was quoted. And people who say things they probably should not say don't like being quoted either.

Wed, 13 Nov 2024 11:54:29 -0600 last edited: Wed, 13 Nov 2024 11:55:30 -0600

morph ⌂

morph@hub.morphtown.de

On the other hand there's a habit that I don't understand well. People still browse the twitter to make screenshots from posts of disturbing accounts there. Just to bring them over here to upset their mastodon timelines with those ... well ... quoted posts.

Wed, 13 Nov 2024 12:17:57 -0600

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Lasse Gismo - 🇮🇱🇺🇦🇸🇩 @Scott M. Stolz

Some people abuse them. They quote someone and then mock them for what they said.

More specifically:

On Twitter/𝕏, hateful right-wing people harass members of marginalised minorities (BIPoC, 2SLGBTQIA+ etc.) by quote-tweeting one of their tweets, mocking them in the tweet that quote-tweets them and then having others mock them even more in the replies. This is so commonplace that it feels like the only use-case that quote-tweets still have on 𝕏.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #Twitter #𝕏 #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets

Wed, 13 Nov 2024 14:34:52 -0600

Lasse Gismo - 🇮🇱🇺🇦🇸🇩

LasseGismo@climatejustice.social

@jupiter_rowland @scott

I guess/hope fedi moderatos will prevent such stuff.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #Twitter #𝕏 #QuoteTweet

Wed, 13 Nov 2024 16:42:20 -0600

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Lasse Gismo - 🇮🇱🇺🇦🇸🇩 If they notice.

Thing is: If someone on Pleroma, Akkoma, Mitra, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte quote-posts someone else, that someone else is notified as if they've been mentioned. If they're notified when they're mentioned by a non-contact out of the blue, that is. Mods might not notice.

If someone on Misskey or any of its various still active forks and fork-forks quote-posts someone else, that someone else is not notified, and neither are any mods unless they happen upon the quote-post.

Also, nobody and nothing on Mastodon can prevent anybody outside of Mastodon from quote-posting anyone on Mastodon. And there's a whole lot outside of Mastodon that can and will always be able to quote-post Mastodon toots with zero resistance. See my start post in this thread for 18 server apps that can do that.

However, this much should be said: Friendica has had quote-posts for over 14 years. Hubzilla has had quote-posts for, technically speaking, almost 13 years. And never in all these years have quote-posts been used on either to harass anyone on Friendica, on Hubzilla, on Mastodon or elsewhere.

Sounds hard to believe for people who only know Twitter and Mastodon, I know. But Friendica and Hubzilla aren't almost entirely populated by people who came from Twitter. They aren't Twitter alternatives anyway. Friendica is a Facebook alternative, and Hubzilla is a Facebook alternative on coke and steroids. Both have a totally, completely different culture from Twitter as well as from Mastodon, both early Mastodon and today's Mastodon. There is no influence from Twitter on them whatsoever.

In fact, until Hubzilla 9.0 which came out this year, Hubzilla did not even have repeats (= retweets = boosts). It had always used quote-posts (= shared posts in Hubzilla lingo) for this purpose.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate

Wed, 13 Nov 2024 17:47:25 -0600

Scott M. Stolz

scott@hubzilla.monster

@Jupiter Rowland

However, this much should be said: Friendica has had quote-posts for over 14 years. Hubzilla has had quote-posts for, technically speaking, almost 13 years. And never in all these years have quote-posts been used on either to harass anyone on Friendica, on Hubzilla, on Mastodon or elsewhere.

A big part if it is culture. But I also wonder if part of that is related to the user interface (UI).

Platforms based on pre-X Twitter are primarily broadcast platforms. Their user interface does not encourage conversations because it makes it hard to follow conversations. You can see replies, but everyone is going to see a different version of the conversation because they don't have threaded conversations and they are not notified of replies that do not specifically mention them.

Compare that with the threaded conversation world, where conversations are the priority. Conversations are group together into threads, and everyone in that thread is notified of replies on that thread. It becomes a group discussion, rather than a bunch of people broadcasting their thoughts.

I think that these types of platforms attract different people, and the user interface encourages or discourages certain behaviors.

Wed, 13 Nov 2024 18:55:36 -0600

NorVegan

norvegan@zotum.net

If you can't stand by what you say, maybe don't say it? At least not publicly on the internet for everyone to see.